Nivona NICR 820 - Typ 709 CafeRomatica - Weak Taste, Cold Coffee, Thin Crema

    • Nivona NICR 820 - Typ 709 CafeRomatica - Weak Taste, Cold Coffee, Thin Crema

      Hersteller: Nivona | Typ-/Modell: NICR 820 - Typ 709 CafeRomatica | ca. Baujahr: 2020

      Hello all,
      In advance, I apologize for writing in English, but I’ve seen other English-written topics here receive replies, so I hope it’s not against the rules.
      I’ve owned the machine since December 2020, and initially, I was very impressed with the results. However, over time, the performance has declined, and now I feel the coffee lacks almost all the flavors I expect.

      Here’s what happens:
      • I perform maintenance according to the machine’s recommendations using the original cleaners. Additionally, I clean the drain valve surroundings under the cover. I also clean the grinder every third machine cleaning cycle. Recently, I replaced the crema valve and all the brewing unit seals.
      • I use filtered water with a 3M filter to reduce scaling.
      • I primarily use light-roasted beans with high acidity, but the output lacks the bright acidic notes I enjoy. I’ve ruled out the beans as the issue since they produce the desired flavor in other machines, including a Jura E8, a Jura ENA 4, and even entry-level Saeco/Philips machines.
      • The coffee comes out quite cold, especially the first cup after the machine has been idle. I can drink it immediately after brewing. Consecutive brews are warmer, and the flavor improves slightly but remains below my expectations.
      • I’ve tried all three temperature levels and infusion profiles, but they make no significant difference.
      • The grind is noticeably coarser compared to the Juras. I've tried shifting the adjustment ring to be able to reach finer setting. It did help a bit.
      • Increasing the strength does make the coffee stronger, but the flavor still feels flat and lacking.
      I would appreciate any advice on what might be causing these issues and how to resolve them. Thank you in advance!

      Mechanische Kenntnisse vorhanden: JA | Elektrische Kentnisse vorhanden: JA | Messgerät vorhanden: JA
    • Yes, original Nivona descaler.
      I took picture of the coffee grounds. The left one is the light roast I use most of the time, the dark one is some cheap beans from Lidl, I ran out of fresh beans so I had to improvise today. The grounds from Jura really look like powder, while this has much bigger grain.
    • I’ll try to take another picture with 1 click finer settings, but I couldn’t tell a difference when I tried that before.
      I can’t measure temperature but I’d say it can’t be right when I brew an espresso to a cup preheated with boiling water and it’s possible to drink it right away. Right?
    • I really don't like recommending trouble shooting steps based on assumptions and feelings so measuring the temperature is pretty essential.

      Has it always been like this or did the temperature get lower recently?

      You could also measure the resistance of the NTC. Should be around 100kOhms at room temperature.

      Regarding the grinder settings, it would really be helpful to know the number of brewed coffees. I've seen grinders starting degrading after 5000 cups but other were still good at 12.000. It always depends on the hardness of the beans.
      Kontakt: sb_NUE ät stephanb.net
    • Sorry I missed that point before. It has done 5600 cups.
      NTC has 102 kOhm after idling for ca. 4 hours.
      I measured the coffee at the spout with a thermocouple and it was 46° at the end of first coffee, 73° at the second one and 82° at the third one. The third coffee is already quite drinkable but still far away from the flavors produced by other machines. Same beans of course.
      I can’t recall noticing the issue with temperature before I started to struggle with the flavor. So I don’t think it’s that low from the beginning but I’m not sure.

      Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 1 mal editiert, zuletzt von vit ()

    • That's ok as well.

      The only remaining idea I have is indeed limescale inside the heater.
      The heater is heating normally and the NTC is reporting the correct values but due to a layer of limescale in the steel tubes inside the heater, the temperature is not transferred properly to the water.

      Although the original Nivona descaler is good, it's maybe worth trying another suitable one and running the descaling program with the double concentration.
      Kontakt: sb_NUE ät stephanb.net
    • What should be the correct temperature at the output for the highest temperature settings? When I run the machine it hot water mode it has immediately over 80 degrees even at cold machine. I’d say it’s quite understandable the brewing unit will take some heat when the machine is cold and I don’t know is the machine knows that and can compensate that.
      Can you tell the grinder is ok based on the pictures I sent?
    • The grinder is more or less ok. But as said, I would make it one or two clicks finer.

      The different behavior between water and coffee is strange. The brewing unit shouldn't take too much heat away as it's fully plastic.

      Did you try to play with the different brewing profiles? They have a direct influence on the water flow over time and might make a difference.
      Kontakt: sb_NUE ät stephanb.net
    • I adjusted the grinder right when you wrote it. The puck looks finer but there’s only little difference in the coffee taste. I honestly can’t tell ant difference between profiles. I tried dynamic and intense, one right after another today, and I couldn’t tell if I hadn’t known.
      It’s like there was some fog covering all the flavors.
      Couldn’t the thin cream be a sign?
    • Thin cream is definitely not normal.

      I'm slowly thinking this might be related to the beans as changing the brewing profiles should definitely change the taste.

      Can you maybe take a video of the coffee brewing so we can see, if there is something abnormal?

      Thin cream could have different reasons from wrong temperature, wrong grinder settings, bad beans or even a defective cream valve.
      Kontakt: sb_NUE ät stephanb.net
    • I'm quite sure it's not the beans as I keep buying same 4 kinds for months and everytime I try them on different machine (most often the Jura E8 mentioned above), they produce the tastes I expect.

      I made a video vimeo.com/1033255547

      Btw. I made another test. I asked my local coffee store to grind a few doses of beans using their professional standalone grinder to very fine powder. When I put the maximum recommended amount (full spoon, not tamped) into the chute, the produced coffee is very weak. However, when I add a little more (11-12 g in total), the drain valve opens and part of the flow goes to the drip tray. The remaining flow goes through the puck and the resulting coffee is really good, it basically matches my expectations. I know it's not how the machine is supposed to be used (I need to set the coffee size to ca. 100 ml to get 30 ml into the cup), but it prooves the capability of the brewing unit from my point of view.

      Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 1 mal editiert, zuletzt von vit ()

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